Yeah, I noticed this particular quote in a recent email from Michael Moore, and it made me smile too. As I've often mentioned, I am rather uncomfortable with the "corpse hammered into wood" that he mentions. It's nice to find "famous people" who agree with me :)
I have to admit when I first heard you use the term "dead man on a stick" at the Girl Fags party back in November, I was quite offended. I had been raised Catholic and even though I don't practice or agree with some things they preach, I still held onto my respect for my religion and Jesus. Well, these past months I have been struggling with the whole religion thing and have come to some conclusions about where I stand now.
For one, I have defended a religion that doesn't accept or defend me. In the eyes of the church, I am nothing but a sinner and if I were to walk into my local church tomorrow wearing a Bisexual t-shirt, I would probably be asked to leave.
Second, with all that is going on in the news about Catholic Priests lately made me think. Here is the church telling homosexuals they are doomed to Hell for how they live their lives, yet there are tons of Priests out there molesting children. You would think they would know that if anything is going to get you into hell, it would be that! *sigh* I struggle and I struggle with this topic, but I think I have finally come to a conclusion.
I want to believe in a higher power. For me, when I drive along a scenic highway or along the coast and look at the natural beauty of California, I want to believe there is something out there that created all of this beauty. I want to believe that something out there created life.. I want to hold onto that and I feel a tremendous sadness to let go of what I was brought up believing. However, I realized just recently that I do not have to be a part of the Catholic religion and worship Jesus Christ to believe that there is something out there, somewhere, much more powerful than you or I. I don't want to let go of that.
It saddens me that the part of me that held my religion so close, has let it go, but I think I have held onto it long enough. I don't practice or agree. I am angered by what some Priests do.. So why should I embrace a religion who thinks that I am a bad person for who I love. Hey, I never molested a child, why do I get to go to hell for loving and caring for someone of my own gender?
I'm sorry that you were offended by my "dead guys on sticks" comment back when, but I also need the right to express my discomfort when faced with explicit depictions of torture and death.
I respect that others revere the God of the Bible, but I wish that people would also respect my desire to stay away from what I see as a misogynistic, homophobic, jealous, unjust God that I feel is depicted therein. I don't think many Christians really read all the "icky parts" in the Bible. One doesn't need the Bible to believe in "the golden rule", as I do. Secular humanism gives me that :) .
I've never been able to personally understand why so many queers stay Catholic in the face of such obvious discrimination. There are so many other Christian denominations that are "welcoming" and accepting of queer Christians, that I don't get it (yeah, I know tradition and family are a big part of it). Queerfolk (and other liberal-ish folk) who give money to the Catholic church only perpetuate that which hates them (and their other messed-up policies). That frustrates me.
If you don't want to hang onto the Bible version of a god, there are many other options, including very fundamental ideas such as pantheism (god is nature) and deism -- the idea that a god created the universe, then left it to run on its own. Me personally, I also love to look at the natural beauty of the universe, but I instead marvel at the simplicities and complexities of physics, chaos, and evolution that brought us to this point. It works for me, since I'm personally unable to use the idea of "I want to believe there is something out there" as a reason to believe -- even in something as simple as deism. I'm a very rational person, and I need reasonable proof or evidence for the things I believe, so I've been shut out of Catholicism (~age 12), Protestantism (~age 16), and have ended up the happy atheist & secular humanist I am now. I've always asked too many questions.
I hope you find a kinder, gentler place to worship in your own way, and I especially hope you find a place that can respect you back. If a loving higher power created humanity, it would make sense to me that it would have created queers too. There is no natural negative outcome to queerdom, so it makes no obvious sense to vilify queers. I'd love to hear that you've found a more welcoming place to express your religious feelings.
I was raised Catholic, until I quit just before my Confirmation (my Mom let me quit, lucky for me). I do hold a lot of resentment for the guilt that the Catholics tried to shove down my throat, and for the sex-negative dogma they promote. As an adult I'm deeply offended by their spectacularly stupid anti-birth-control stance, including no condoms. And of course their anti-queer stance is just plain wrong. And, as I said, I can't stand the depiction of torture and death as part of the symbol of Christ on the cross (I don't even see violent movies).
As far as the child-molesting priests, they're evil, *and* the Catholic Church officials who protected them are *also* evil. You make a very good point that they protected these (clearly evil) priests while saying that queers are going to hell. They have no sense of perspective, or (I claim) of the various forms real love can take.
OK, I'll shut up now. Sometimes I just feel that I have to say my bit, since I don't see it represented enough around me. I hope you don't take my little LJ comment the wrong way, just as my own need to express my feelings from time to time.
I have to make this super quick because I have to get to work, but I do want to reply to a few things.
I was raised Catholic, until I quit just before my Confirmation (my Mom let me quit, lucky for me).
When I was 13 I no longer wanted to go to church. I told my mother, but she forced me to make my Confirmation. After that was all over, I had my lovely Catholic girl Confirmation party and told my mother I no longer wanted to go to Church. I have, since, been to Church a dozen times, maybe.
I'm deeply offended by their spectacularly stupid anti-birth-control stance, including no condoms. And of course their anti-queer stance is just plain wrong.
I have disagreed with this for as long as I could remember. It just so happens that I am now a part of the group they disapprove of.
OK, I'll shut up now. Sometimes I just feel that I have to say my bit, since I don't see it represented enough around me. I hope you don't take my little LJ comment the wrong way, just as my own need to express my feelings from time to time.
Not at all. I am making some really life altering changes lately and renouncing my religion is just one of them. I am not offended by anything you wrote. I actually agree with all of it. *sigh* A little part of me is still kind of waiting for the lightning to strike me dead! *grin* Hey, I have had a faith for 27+ years, I guess it will take me a little time to get used to the fact that I have changed my views on this subject.
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(no subject)
I <HEART> Michael Moore too!
*sigh*
For one, I have defended a religion that doesn't accept or defend me. In the eyes of the church, I am nothing but a sinner and if I were to walk into my local church tomorrow wearing a Bisexual t-shirt, I would probably be asked to leave.
Second, with all that is going on in the news about Catholic Priests lately made me think. Here is the church telling homosexuals they are doomed to Hell for how they live their lives, yet there are tons of Priests out there molesting children. You would think they would know that if anything is going to get you into hell, it would be that! *sigh* I struggle and I struggle with this topic, but I think I have finally come to a conclusion.
I want to believe in a higher power. For me, when I drive along a scenic highway or along the coast and look at the natural beauty of California, I want to believe there is something out there that created all of this beauty. I want to believe that something out there created life.. I want to hold onto that and I feel a tremendous sadness to let go of what I was brought up believing. However, I realized just recently that I do not have to be a part of the Catholic religion and worship Jesus Christ to believe that there is something out there, somewhere, much more powerful than you or I. I don't want to let go of that.
It saddens me that the part of me that held my religion so close, has let it go, but I think I have held onto it long enough. I don't practice or agree. I am angered by what some Priests do.. So why should I embrace a religion who thinks that I am a bad person for who I love. Hey, I never molested a child, why do I get to go to hell for loving and caring for someone of my own gender?
(no subject)
Date: 2002-04-03 02:48 am (UTC)I respect that others revere the God of the Bible, but I wish that people would also respect my desire to stay away from what I see as a misogynistic, homophobic, jealous, unjust God that I feel is depicted therein. I don't think many Christians really read all the "icky parts" in the Bible. One doesn't need the Bible to believe in "the golden rule", as I do. Secular humanism gives me that :) .
I've never been able to personally understand why so many queers stay Catholic in the face of such obvious discrimination. There are so many other Christian denominations that are "welcoming" and accepting of queer Christians, that I don't get it (yeah, I know tradition and family are a big part of it). Queerfolk (and other liberal-ish folk) who give money to the Catholic church only perpetuate that which hates them (and their other messed-up policies). That frustrates me.
If you don't want to hang onto the Bible version of a god, there are many other options, including very fundamental ideas such as pantheism (god is nature) and deism -- the idea that a god created the universe, then left it to run on its own. Me personally, I also love to look at the natural beauty of the universe, but I instead marvel at the simplicities and complexities of physics, chaos, and evolution that brought us to this point. It works for me, since I'm personally unable to use the idea of "I want to believe there is something out there" as a reason to believe -- even in something as simple as deism. I'm a very rational person, and I need reasonable proof or evidence for the things I believe, so I've been shut out of Catholicism (~age 12), Protestantism (~age 16), and have ended up the happy atheist & secular humanist I am now. I've always asked too many questions.
I hope you find a kinder, gentler place to worship in your own way, and I especially hope you find a place that can respect you back. If a loving higher power created humanity, it would make sense to me that it would have created queers too. There is no natural negative outcome to queerdom, so it makes no obvious sense to vilify queers. I'd love to hear that you've found a more welcoming place to express your religious feelings.
I was raised Catholic, until I quit just before my Confirmation (my Mom let me quit, lucky for me). I do hold a lot of resentment for the guilt that the Catholics tried to shove down my throat, and for the sex-negative dogma they promote. As an adult I'm deeply offended by their spectacularly stupid anti-birth-control stance, including no condoms. And of course their anti-queer stance is just plain wrong. And, as I said, I can't stand the depiction of torture and death as part of the symbol of Christ on the cross (I don't even see violent movies).
As far as the child-molesting priests, they're evil, *and* the Catholic Church officials who protected them are *also* evil. You make a very good point that they protected these (clearly evil) priests while saying that queers are going to hell. They have no sense of perspective, or (I claim) of the various forms real love can take.
OK, I'll shut up now. Sometimes I just feel that I have to say my bit, since I don't see it represented enough around me. I hope you don't take my little LJ comment the wrong way, just as my own need to express my feelings from time to time.
(no subject)
I was raised Catholic, until I quit just before my Confirmation (my Mom let me quit, lucky for me).
When I was 13 I no longer wanted to go to church. I told my mother, but she forced me to make my Confirmation. After that was all over, I had my lovely Catholic girl Confirmation party and told my mother I no longer wanted to go to Church. I have, since, been to Church a dozen times, maybe.
I'm deeply offended by their spectacularly stupid anti-birth-control stance, including no condoms. And of course their anti-queer stance is just plain wrong.
I have disagreed with this for as long as I could remember. It just so happens that I am now a part of the group they disapprove of.
OK, I'll shut up now. Sometimes I just feel that I have to say my bit, since I don't see it represented enough around me. I hope you don't take my little LJ comment the wrong way, just as my own need to express my feelings from time to time.
Not at all. I am making some really life altering changes lately and renouncing my religion is just one of them. I am not offended by anything you wrote. I actually agree with all of it. *sigh* A little part of me is still kind of waiting for the lightning to strike me dead! *grin* Hey, I have had a faith for 27+ years, I guess it will take me a little time to get used to the fact that I have changed my views on this subject.
Well, off to work. Thanks for your insight! =o)
(no subject)
Date: 2002-04-02 06:08 pm (UTC)just a drive-by posting... i got deflected here from
(no subject)
Date: 2002-04-03 05:15 pm (UTC)sigh.
I'm not even going to start.